SEO… But Stolen From Social
We’re back at it stealing from social this week – we’ve once again shamelessly trawled Reddit and Twitter for SEO topics to have a chat about on the show. Listen in for the debut of our high production, very special intro music for the segment.
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Hi guys, we don’t run ads on this show, we don’t try and make money from it. We don’t even really promote our agency on it. So we’re not asking anything of you normally, but I do have a little ask now, if you’ve enjoyed the show if you’ve got value from it, if you could please go leave a review wherever you get your podcast. It’ll really help us get this show in the hands of more listeners and help more business owners. All right, let’s get into the show.
Unknown Speaker 0:23
It’s time for the SEO show where a couple of nerds talk search engine optimization so you can learn to compete in Google and grow your business online. Now, here’s your hosts Michael and Arthur.
Hello, everybody and welcome to another episode of the SEO show. My name is Arthur fabic. And as always, I’m here with my wonderful co host Michael Causton. How you doing? Would you like that intro and then Soozee Azzam Yeah, it
was there. I wasn’t sure if I was meant to say Michael Kosta? No,
no. Well, that’s what you did to me every time. Yeah, it’s confusing, isn’t it? You should point I should point if I want you to say something.
Do you want to know something? That’s really sad considering how useless we are at interest? Well, not sad, but even baru bewildering? What? With final listen to podcasts. Well, yeah,
forget about that. It’s pretty big.
It’s not bad, but we can’t even do an interview properly.
I thought that was pretty good. Yeah. So what category are we nominated in?
Best Business Podcast? Okay. I thought, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say we’re probably not going to win because we are a niche SEO podcast. And we’re up against like, you know, motivational business podcast Mark poorest type people of the world. So it’s just good to be there. I guess at this point, the little SEO show that couldn’t?
Yeah. I’m happy with that. Yeah, I mean, imagine a year ago me telling you, we’d be nominated for what is it podcast of the year? I don’t even know you put the nomination in the Australian Podcast Awards, the Australian Podcast Awards.
You never would have believed it. I wouldn’t have not been here we are. And guess what? We are also here for a another episode of stolen. Stolen, stolen from social.
One of our favourite segments.
Yep. It’s a segment we fall back on when we’ve done no preparation whatsoever. Because we actually banked like six episodes of the show. Now we’ve realised oh my god, it’s Tuesday, we’re gonna do something.
It’s actually been a while since we’ve sat in here together. It’s been
like ages since an episode with us being on it.
Well, that’s true. Yeah. I forgot how to podcast. Yep.
Well, you’re gonna have to remember all you have to do is go on Twitter and read stuff and talk about it because we’re stealing ideas from Twitter. For our stolen by social episode three. I don’t even know how many tweets we have. Six, six, cool, because what we do basically, you know, I sort of trawl through SEO Twitter. And when I come across stuff that I think would be good to steal. I just drop it in a little sheet. And then me and Arthur come and talk about and I read off.
Yeah, that’s a podcast forever podcast Award nominated.
Absolutely elite level production there. And maybe we’ll just get into it and talk about the podcast. That was not the podcast, the question that was stolen from my press. I got distracted by that sound going off in the background, though. That absolute disgrace for our first episode since the award announcement, isn’t it?
Sure. Let’s keep pushing on there. Okay. Pushing on.
We’re gonna say what Mark Preston wrote on Twitter. Ready? Ready, serious question, dot, dot dot. Why do you work in the SEO industry? Why do you work in the SEO industry?
Because I love it. Love it so much. Yep. Why do I work in the SEO industry? And well, because I’ve been in the industry since I’ve started my career. I fell in love with it. It matches what I like doing what I want in a job. So that’s why I’m still doing it. That’s a combination of you know, being a nerd. Creativity, you know, technical, just. Yeah, without preparing an answer. That’s basically it.
Okay. Yeah, well, yeah, me too. I do it because I’ve been doing it for years. So it’s, well yeah, this point it’s a career. Yeah,
exactly. The reason I’m still in it is because I love it because it’s fun. It’s constantly changing. It keeps us on our toes and it’s exciting and frustrating at the same time. You meet great people. It’s good. It’s a good period of a good industry to be in
you get to get nominated for awards by talking about it. It’s also
very rewarding. So you know if you get a client ranking really well and you can see you know, yeah, I guess the fruits of your labour is that the the fruits of your labour yeah fruits of your labour I don’t know if that was the correct terminal. I stuck with analogy. Did you stumble on fruits of your loin and were you getting a bit dead about thing I don’t even I didn’t even know that was the same with analogies but different meaning you get you get to see that basically and I find that really rewarding seeing keywords ranking. Position one traffic. Yep. Everything that goes along with it, SEO. SEO is explaining SEO. Now
I remember when I interviewed at my first SEO agency job, which was where DGM so you got the first job you interviewed for an SEO agency? Yeah. Right. And you got a Yep. Yep. One for one. So. So same agency as well. Yep. Different name, though. Right at the time. I still did. Yeah. Okay. Well, anyway, in the interview, they asked me like, what, why do you why do you like SEO over SEM? And I remember giving the answer at the time that the game of it, I love the game, I love doing stuff, like thinking about stuff that I think is gonna work, implementing it, and waiting to see what Google does. And then when you win, it’s fun. And I remember given that answer, and they were all like, yes, yes. And like, as they were reacting like that. I thought, You know what, I could get this job here. Right? And, um, that game is still a thing today. Like it’s nonstop, I guess, evolution learning challenges. So that’s pretty cool.
Funny story. You were in my interview when I was interviewing, one of the questions that were I was asked was, what’s your favourite website? And I said, Facebook.
How did you end up getting a job? Well, here I am.
I like Facebook.
It’s a pretty broad question to be fair. Like, what’s your favourite website? I wonder what I was looking for?
What’s your favourite website?
I’d say Reddit or Twitter? Well, it’s the same thing. Yeah,
I guess there was no, there was Reddit, but it wasn’t as popular. So I was a valid answer. And here I am, sir. You’ve done it. Yeah.
Well, let’s read out what a couple of other people said on this thread. I like what Calum Scott had to say. That is a good way to make money, good money that keeps my brain stimulated by working in a job that requires continued learning to stay in the game would suit me. I agree. It suits me too.
And you need to stay in the game, otherwise, you’re gone.
Very true. Very true. The other thing he said he likes SEO Twitter drama, which I don’t know, you don’t really follow it that much. But there’s some good drama on there. From time to time. pretty much pointless drama, but like, you know, people will be ranting and raving over some sort of topic on there. From time to time. Maybe I need to get on Twitter. Get on their theory think you can assist in creating the stolen from social episode. Could I could I will. Steph grave said continuous challenge non stop learning no time for boredom, flexibility, remote opportunities, great work life balance, and the never ending puzzle that my brain loves to fix. All stuff that we said just in probably much better words. So cool. Yeah, I thought that would be good to start with just to see why you’re in SEO. Let’s move on there. Because the next one comes from I’m going to call him friend of the show friend of the show really is isn’t a friend of the show Kevin Indy than a couple of episodes ago. And he asked the hardest part about b2b SEO is blank. What would you say the hardest part about b2b SEO is
with little preparation. Again, I think that targeting keywords and targeting the right person, if if you’re working with a b2b client, and the keywords crossover with B to C, you’re at a risk of getting the wrong traffic to the site. So just I guess targeting the right people. Yeah, for me. Yep. Okay. Do you agree or disagree?
Yeah, I think so. Like trying to find the intent there. Yes. Because it’s overt, but often people will think with Google ads. Let’s say someone’s coming in on the keyword builder. They could be wanting to build a cheap as chips entry level home, or a super expensive premium high end home. Yes. And you can’t really get at the intent there. Yeah. And with b2b, you know, like, if you’re going hardcore for intent than volume is probably going to be low. Yeah, there’s always going to be crossover and sort of tire kickers and the likes. Yeah. Want to drill down on that. One example that comes to my head was we used to work with custom uniform sports uniform.
can name them doesn’t matter. Anyway, they did custom uniforms. And essentially, they do not exist anymore. They don’t exist on the go sports. And essentially, what they did was they did custom uniforms, sports uniforms for larger orders. That they not, like that was the main purpose. They had like minimum order. I think those are the people that came through they wanted one. Yeah. Coming off the same keywords. Yeah, someone wanting a custom jersey, but with a minimum order of 10 or whatever it was. So you know, targeting matching that intent and targeting the right keywords. You always want to get people coming through, depending on what the industry is.
That can be a bit of a problem in general, like SEO is blamed in that case. All this traffic is not converting it’s no good. Like it’s more the offer or the Yeah, the product. That’s the problem in that case. I liked what Chris stole Carter brackets she slashed her brackets had to say about it, which was showing ROI on deals that take months and multiple touchpoints. To close. Everyone sales account manager SEO PPC tries to take credit for something that must be a team effort. I thought that was pretty cool. Because I agree. We were speaking to a colleague of Well, a friend of ours who works in b2b SaaS. And he was sort of saying that he’s judged on how many sales is Google ads were bringing in a month, even though the lead time or like the sort of sales cycle could be months and months and months, which is a bit unfair trying to neatly attach revenue to leads generate in month them definitely maybe being judged on generating leads, or MQ ELLs rather than sales figures is a bit more fair. But that’s definitely the case attribution and in general nightmare across all channels. So I like that one. What about this one from Brandon van Mulligan?
I remember that surname was me.
That’s a tough name to say. But he said, realising sometimes SEO isn’t just the way to go.
Upside Down smiley face emoji. Pretty dress,
like SEO is not always the right time when it comes to b2b. If you’re in a really niche sort of
industry, that might not be even such volume, that’s volume and people searching for it.
Yeah. Like you’re going for bottom of funnel intent driven search, when really you almost need to be creating a market.
And we worked with a client that did powerline software, and that was they got very much b2b keywords had absolutely no search volume. It was just very hard to kind of target the right thing.
Yeah. So um, powerline software isn’t meant as nation that yes, yeah. So in that sort of case, probably advertising on LinkedIn and doing outbound emails and even doing Facebook ads to people who have an interest in Powerline? Yeah.
You know, like they were targeting councils and developers and things like that. And yeah, big ticket kind of governments and stuff. So yeah, SEO wasn’t the right channel. Yep.
Another person commented on their bavette. Lau, which I thought was pretty cool. Pretty cool. But right, it’s constantly combating long form content. So having to refresh an already evergreen content, and then diversify and keyword targeting once you’ve hit a plateau due to lack of opportunities. So he’s basically saying scaling after a certain point and maintaining performance. So like, if you have really done a good job, with the b2b, SEO, you have content hubs on your site with all different silos, heaps of content there around themes getting heaps of traffic, you need to maintain that content, like over time, it sort of decays, even though it’s evergreen, in inverted commas. Other competitors are writing similar things, or you know, Google’s changing algorithms and you’re having to go back and refresh that content. Or try and let think laterally and find other angles to write about to maintain or continue growth, which is a bit of a problem in the b2b world where they can be a limit to that because of the niche focus of a lot of them.
Yeah, look, to be honest, b2b SEO is not my favourite type of this year.
No. What’s your favourite type of SEO?
Like, what if the EECOM if you had an absolute dream client walk in the door? What are they doing?
Now nice ecommerce site with a big budget. Okay. Yeah, a nice healthy SEO budget.
For me, yeah, one of them. I don’t know that I have a dream. A big ecommerce good because you can sort of even make sales or it doesn’t sound like that has a budget for conversion rate optimisation to like a good site? Because you can get the traffic there. And then if it doesn’t convert, you’re in the bad books. Yeah. Generally, I like saying, you know, like Google ads. I like lead gen for service business. Yeah. SAS or software as a service or Yep. Like Home Services. Medical Services. Yeah, maybe that for us? Yeah. With a healthy budget.
I think it’d be fun like for me ecommerce. If it was like a, like a JB Hi, Fi. Oh, yeah, like a big site, big budgets get to play around or like we’ll have technical aspects and content and just I think it’d be fun. Yep. Preferably something that’s in the industry that I’m interested in. So I love tech, so working on something like that would be more desirable to me.
What about crypto? ftx.com?
No one’s gonna care less about crypto to be honest.
Good. Okay. Let’s move on and have a look at what Jen Boland had to say. Maybe you can read it because I’ve read them all out it open it up. Alright, just met with a client who wants to improve hashtag SEO But doesn’t want to create content or fix anything on their website? Hmm? Hmm. Indeed, that’s annoying, isn’t it? It is. And it’s all too common. Unfortunately, that people will be very wedded to odd things about their site, you know, weddings here and there. Things that other people are just not looking at. And they won’t want to change it or there’ll be there’ll be reasons why someone in their business wrote that page, and they don’t want it touched, you know, outside of actually the thing that they’re trying to achieve, which is improve rankings and traffic and visibility in the life. Yeah. So what Cory Cory hired pretty high and said, in response, I thought was pretty cool. Pretty normal truth. Yeah. 100, like a new gym member who wants to get in shape, but not do any training or change their diet?
Yeah. can be very frustrating than that on that.
Yeah. And someone else chimed in with a comment that Bruce Clay said back in the day, which is never complained about the results you don’t get because of the work you don’t do. Which is perfect. Yep. And you’ll often find that the people that sort of say that you can’t do anything, I don’t want content credit, I don’t want to change anything in my flat will be annoyed when they aren’t results.
Yeah. I guess to one up that people that think they know about us clients that think they know about after engaging us as experts, then having that constant uphill battle of especially fighting with them to try to get stuff done. So, you know, client doesn’t always know best, unfortunately. Yep. But I think yeah, the fact that he said, pretty normal, everyone’s kind of experienced that every SEO would have experienced a client that refuses to implement your recommendations.
Yeah. The i was the most important part of SEO, during the optimization work. That’s it. So alright, let’s move on. I think this was your you were very excited about this question. When we had a look at them. I saw you copying and pasting and putting that all their screenshots in so I’ll let you handle it. Daniel at Kate Chung.
Let me just quickly scroll down to it. Daniel K. Chung. Okay, SEO Twitter, do your thing. What is the one thing that keeps you working in ser?
The one thing,
the one thing? I’m asking you.
The one thing I will for me? I’m a partner in an agency that provides SEO. So that keeps me working in it. But um, I liked this response. PPC getting more expensive. Yeah. Yep, it is. Google Ad costs rose something like 20% On average last year and have done it again this year. More maybe? Yeah, they have industries leaving? Oh, yeah. That was on average, on average. Yeah, some of our clients. Yeah, we’re seeing it in like plenty of accounts now where bids have tripled over the space of this year. And you just have to do that to get the impression. And that is only going to get worse because Google, you know, they have their share price to constantly be growing and you know, keeping the markets happy. And they need never ending growth to do that. So that getting as much blood as possible from stones, which means, you know, it makes it tough to be making money on Google ads. Whereas with SEO, if you can get that visibility, the amount of traffic you can drive through those campaigns. Significantly more than you’ll be able to through paid ads. Yeah. So I like that one. What else was there? Money? Yeah, pretty straightforward.
Well, yeah, why not? Not wrong. Yep. Christine, she, I’m not even gonna attempt to pronounce that. So she’s given like, 30 different answers. Interesting. I agree, tick, never gets boring, which I guess is the same thing as interesting. Problem solving, which is probably one of my favourite things is, you know, if I still like going into accounts and trying to figure out why things are happening. So for people that are like, analytical minded and like doing that, it’s it’s an amazing industry to be in the people. I mean, depends on who you work with, I guess, but you know, working with the right people, it’s amazing learning from them, you know, growing. And yeah, what what can I say? The travelling to conferences is always fun. We haven’t done that much recently, obviously, due to COVID. But the times that we have we have a lot of amazing stories that we can probably not share on the podcast, but it’s a good I guess, perk. Knowing people all over the world. So again, this is another thing that you’ve done with the podcast is you spoken to different ser leaders and thought leaders from all across the globe, like US, UK, Scotland. Argentina, Argentina, Russia. Yeah, every women going all over the place literally cool. Quite literally. Yep. The friends that are like family. Yep. The community tick and the clients I can help. So it’s a lot of it’s a
lot of one thing that what what is the one thing I can never gets boring
problem solving, which I guess is kind of Yeah, never gets boring. Interesting never gets boring problem solving to me it kind of bucketed into the one thing.
Yes. The game in my amazing answer that I gave in that job interview back in the day,
isn’t it? Yes, you did. Well, you looked really disinterested
displeased or disinterested. Yep. All right. Well, I think we’re up to the last one on a second last one.
Let me do this on your own do. Adriana Stein. Steen Stein, whatever. Do you think backlinks are overrated? No, I do not. They’re very important. They’re our favourite part of SEO. We love talking about backlinks and link building. So
everybody loves backlinks, as we always say. But actually on this post, some people don’t. So there’s plenty of people that do you know, people saying, I don’t think so backlinks are one of the top three Google ranking factors that really important, very every quality backlink matters a lot with some niches you can make with minimal effort. But mostly proper backlink strategy is important to rank a grade, correct? No, they are important and play an important part in ranking your website. Yes, I was from shag, shag Infotech Ken Chow says it doesn’t matter whether I do or not. It only matters what Google algo thinks. Well, that’s
a very valid response. I
think. Did you know that Michael Causton at server scaling actually replied to this on to shameless plug. He saw I didn’t see that. Did you? Did you only do it right before this. I did it on October 18. It says let me find a curry that says if you can find it quickly, you can read one second Give me one second. I’ll read some cases have read some people that were against that their metrics like da and Dr. Overrated for sure. But you need backlinks to be competitive in many industries. Many cases, people who are saying you don’t need to build links aligned to themselves. I absolutely agree with that. Or they’re working on websites that get tonnes of links coming in naturally. And they don’t need to build links. So example would be like a big, you know, Telstra, they don’t need to do a lot of link building. But
yeah, so the agency I still work out with never done any link building because there were big brands that just naturally acquired links. Yeah. Didn’t need to do it. But I guess the question isn’t, is link building important or backlinks important? Yeah. And the backlinks are important. The found this one here from at service scaling Michael Causton. Or yet what what did he have to say to say they are still super important and competitive niches? So I don’t think that overrated? What an answer? Well,
I like one week retweet on that one. So did you actually set set this coming to light really, other people had 36 likes on this, so we’ll just ignore that. But I agree with what he had to say they’re very good at following you. Now, this guy is trying to say dot auto crap. Don’t get me wrong. Links are still important, and one of the biggest factors, but they’re not as influential as they were 10 years ago. I don’t get I don’t understand. They’re not influential, but they’re still the biggest factors and important. I still think that we know. Yeah, we know. We do it all the time. And in any competitive space. If you just put up a site with content, it’s not gonna go anywhere.
Good luck with that.
Good luck with that.
All right. Last question. I’ll let you read this one out. I’ve hijacked it.
Hmm. This is from Nathan Gotch. At Nathan Gotch. I can see he’s got the blue checkmark there wonder if he’s paying
for that. Sure. Get him on the car. Sure. Yeah, we’ll see. It’s got 13.6k followers. So
we’ll have Pamela reach up. There we go. Let’s have a look at what he has to say. Is SEO overrated? Absolutely. You think it is?
No. Gardener I love this year.
I love it too. But I like this answer. My band tog crews bed. Underrated by many business owners, in fact. Oh.
Did you like that? I did. I my microphone dropped. As that happened.
Underrated by many business owners. In fact. So she’s saying the opposite of what he’s saying.
Yeah. Which is true. I love this. The I don’t think it’s I think it’s perfectly right and perfectly around it.
I think so. Yeah. It’s not that we’re biassed on a show called the SEO show. Yeah, that’s no, it’s just it’s perfectly right. Now Taylor, who sent said that? No, not at all. When CPC is increased seasonally. organic traffic gets the traffic increase without the increased costs so many other reasons to
well, you need to be ranking first but you are ranking well. Yeah, to get that traffic, sir.
But this comes back to what we’re talking I like it when you are ranking. It’s definitely not overrated it can be, I’ll tell you what it can do. skyrocket your business account Tenex to skyrocket your growth. Open the floodgates, it can open the floodgates to
be drowning, you’ll be literally drowning and leads and you can double,
triple or even quadruple your customers. So we’re we’re making fun of ads here. I like that. That is true.
The next one, SEO is dead. has been running for years. SEO is dead is articles that I’ve seen when I started doing SEO in 2012. Yes, it’s been dying for the last decade. Yes.
I literally just read one yesterday about half dead now. And
every year I see this bed. Yep. And here we are on the sex show. Yeah, talking about us. Yeah, yep.
So Julian day said that and he says we’re still waiting upside down smiley face.
I love that passive aggressive upside down smiley face.
What do you interpret an upside down? Smiley face out? Passive
aggressive old? Like just? Yeah, I don’t know.
Throughout while I tell you what one person said here, which I agree with. Fadli? Well, I know what the salary thing, the response to but he’s saying we should upgrade our skill set people with multiple skills like SEO, PPC, social media, and good communication skills. So you can manage good clients are earning more or he’s refined. He’s saying SEO is underpaid. Someone says in Pakistan and India. That may be the case. But this guy’s feedback was right. Yes, SEO is good. But you want to be even if you just have really good calm skills as well, you’re not just hiding behind your screen, dealing with technical stuff all day, but you can communicate about SEO in terms that business owners will understand in terms of outcomes to them in terms of the things that they care about. Yep. If you can manage clients and keep them around, that’s a valuable skill that makes you worth more than SEO. And then if you can also run Google ads as well then forget about a unicorn, you are entering unicorn territory, then there’s plenty of jobs like client side jobs online, where they just want a digital marketing Rockstar to come in and run everything for like a pretty basic salary, like a jack of all trades, master of none. I don’t know what they think they’re getting. But like, yeah, very basic entry level in their head. They’re getting someone that can come along and run all of that stuff awesomely, which there would be people out there, but that’d be experienced people super expensive. And they probably don’t want to go work in those sorts of roles. So so yeah. The last one. I thought that was the last one. Now the last response to do you think SEO is overrated, my apologies and moderate fakes and let them think it’s overrated to keep the competition low. Because your fake knows how good ranking in the SEO results in Google lives doesn’t
mean it’s the best. That’s what we strive to do every day is ranking this year. We’ll keep on striving top of Google paid position one ideally, yes.
That’s what it’s all about. The end of the day,
there’s no position to an SEO. What? One person we used to work with told me once Yes, I told them, it’s quite literally as a position to an SEO Yeah, it’s quite good. You also try to reverse engineer SEO by explaining to what it was to you anyway. Yeah. Going off tangent here. Ignore me, you. I’ve been it’s been a while since I sat in front of the microphone. So I feel
very rusty to I feel now for those. We owe an apology to our listeners. And we will be better next week. I guarantee it. But until then, happy of viewing Bye bye.
Unknown Speaker 28:31
Thanks for listening to the SEO show. If you like what you heard, don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts. It will really help the show. We’ll see you in the next episode.
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