Casino SEO Secrets

MICHAEL:
Hi guys, Michael here. Do you want a second opinion on your SEO? Head to theseoshow.co and hit the link in the header. We'll take a look under the hood at your SEO, your competitors and your market and tell you how you can improve. All right, let's get into the show.

INTRO: It's time for The SEO Show, where a couple of nerds talk search engine optimization so you can learn to compete in Google and grow your business online. Now here's your hosts, Michael and Arthur.

MICHAEL: Hello and welcome to the SEO show. I'm Michael Costin and we have a special guest this week, Kristoffer Holten. So Kris joined us early in the week at Chiang Mai SEO conference ahead of his talk at the conference. And we got into all things casino SEO with him. So he's been in the space for about 10 years, works on some very big sites, doing very big numbers in terms of link building, revenue, content generation. And we got to pick his brain on the ins and outs of the casino SEO space. So doing SEO for casino, casino affiliates is very competitive, very aggressive. So it was fun to chat with him. And I have to say his talk, he closed out day one of the conference. his talk got a lot of attention because he got up on stage and just told it like it was and it was quite tactical and I guess Interesting, you know, which is not always the case with Presentations at conferences. So yeah, we found his podcast really interesting as well. That's enough for me Let's take you straight to our chat with Kristoffer Holten the casino SEO Hi Kris, welcome to the SEO show. For people who might not have heard about you, if you could just give us a bit of background about yourself and what you do in the world of SEO and we'll get going from there.

KRIS: Well, thank you. Thank you for having me here. It's great to be here. I'm Kristoffer. You can just call me Kris. I've been doing SEO since 2012. I'm based in Copenhagen, Denmark. I've been in the casino industry since 2014. That's why I'm giving a speech here at the Chiang Mai SEO Conference in 2023 about casino affiliate related to interesting stuff. Yeah.

MICHAEL: Yeah, very interesting indeed. You know, we do a lot of, you know, we talk about SEO a lot on this show, but we haven't really delved into the world of casino affiliate SEO. And I'm super interested in it. I know the payouts are high. I know the competition's strong. It's sort of at the cutting edge, you know, trying to figure out what works and, you know, scale up the stuff that does. So it's really cool and interesting. Your topic at the conference is what 10 years in casino affiliate niche taught me. Maybe if we just get a bit of a high-level overview on what casino affiliate marketing is. We'll assume most people know, but for those that don't, give us a top-level overview and then we'll get into the nitty-gritty.

KRIS: Yeah, well, casino affiliate marketing is quite simple. The casinos are struggling to get players themselves and they're all competing. So they want to play individuals like us to get them as many players as possible. And the higher the value, the better. So basically it is sending players to the casinos, to the operators, and you get either a fixed fee, a revenue share, a flat fee for even showing them just a banner or something. And that's the name of the game. And the more traffic you bring, the more money you'll make. And now you said it's rare that people actually talk about this at the conferences. It's kind of strange to me, but I think that people are a bit afraid to get into the casino niche. It's very competitive. Many people don't like gambling either, but we're searching for SEO managers every single day. It's really difficult to find people that are also experienced in gambling. So it's a real challenge for us as well.

MICHAEL: Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, working in the SEO world, I always had the perspective that it was just super difficult, you know, when it comes to getting links, for example, maybe a website might not want to link to a gambling site or it could be more expensive. So that might be a bit of it. But I guess from our personal, you know, we come from agency world doing services for clients, a little bit of affiliate, but not casino. So it's going to be really cool to jump into what you're doing in the space, but maybe let's frame people's expectations in terms of CPAs, you know, earning potential in the space. You mentioned CPA for new players all the way through to just making a bit of money for showing someone a banner. Can you elaborate a bit on what is realistic out there in terms of, you know, earnings that you make per user and in the space in general?

KRIS: Well, it really depends. There are many factors to taking. Obviously the market, people from, let's say the Nordic, Scandinavia are usually worth much more. People from Asia's obviously worth a bit less. So the same goes for Africa. Then depends on the, on the keyword. Everything about crypto casinos are usually very high value because people want to, to like someone to do some money laundering as well. So there's a lot of, of deposits going on in here. People searching for online casino in general at really high value. People searching for betting apps, casino apps to do on their phone, usually less valued because they have to deposit via their phone. So it really depends on the keyword. Banners in app like casino app, entertainment apps on your phone, those CPAs are usually also a bit lower than the rest of the market. But You're probably looking for anywhere between $100 per user up to, let's say, $1,200 for some of the really, really good players. And on top of that, there's usually a rev share. So you just split it with the casino, and that goes from starting from 35% up to, let's say, 45%, 50% for the real good rev share deals. But the kicker is usually at the flat fees, the fixed fees. So there's a lot of Asian brains that it's really difficult for us to communicate with them. They usually shave what is called the business, meaning that we might send them a thousand players, but we only see 200 of them in their system. So in order to avoid getting shaved too much, we usually take a fixed fee for listing them on our site. And that could range from some of our top partners pay us 100, 150k a month just to be listed. And some of the smaller ones pays us just 2000 euros just to be on the list.

ARTHUR: Okay. How does RefShare work? Because I don't know much about online affiliate, but would it be like a portion of what they gamble?

KRIS: Yeah. So they sign up at a betting site and you get 35% of everything they lose and the house keeps the rest. Okay. Wow. If they win a lot, then there's something called negative RefShare, which means it's going to take you a while to build that back. So if you're a new affiliate and you're getting into a RevShare business and someone hits the jackpot, then you might be ruined for months. So this is very important that you negotiate a non-carryover in negative RevShare on all your accounts to make sure that just in case that no one hits the bonus. It's a good idea for new affiliates. Wow. Yeah.

MICHAEL: I would imagine as a new affiliate, you would probably need to build up a bit of a pot yourself, you know, to use a gambling term to be defensible for that stuff if you do go into the rev share.

KRIS: Exactly. Yeah, yeah. But no negative carryover is very important for new affiliates, also for existing like us. We have monthly people who win a lot of money and that's super annoying when you expect a good payout for a rev share and then at the end of the month, someone just takes out 60k. That's annoying for everyone.

MICHAEL: So the space with payouts like this, it's obviously very attractive for very good SEOs to get into the space and go after these keywords. How difficult is it? Let's say you're a new player and you want to go in. In terms of player, I mean, you're a new website, you're wanting to promote affiliate offers. Based on your experience in the space, is it even viable? Let's say a VPN review is very difficult to rank for best VPN. Is it pretty much impossible for a new person to get into the space?

KRIS: pretty much impossible for you as an individual to go in a rank for online casinos. Yes, that game is long gone. There's no reason to spend your money on it or time on it. You should go for different keywords, different markets than the US market, because there's no way you're going to compete against people like us or other huge corporate companies out there.

MICHAEL: That's just how it is.

KRIS: But I'm going to talk in my speech about how you can get in, because there are multiple ways. There's a lot of unlicensed markets where big corporates are not going into due to illegal stuff, obviously. Sweden, Finland is a good example. Then there's the smaller keywords that are very niche-specific, slot machine reviews and specific slot machines that opened recently. Slot themes, like people even search for a fish themed slots. It's crazy. You might not make a lot of money and that's why we don't go into these. But as a new affiliate, there's definitely money to be made. Then there's all the emerging markets like Africa is amazing for new affiliates. Tons of local African markets where you can tap in. A piece of advice is they use apps down there. So you've got to go for the apps keywords. That's the best thing in Africa.

MICHAEL: And what's the, like, are they spending as much money there? Are you trying to get upfront CPA type payments for just getting a new user into the system?

KRIS: As a new affiliate, you're just going to take everything you can get. So that's probably just the rev share in the beginning. And once you see the players come in, you can negotiate a CPA. And once you can actually show that you have players, then you negotiate a flat fee. That's kind of the way it goes.

MICHAEL: What about like as a new player or maybe not even a new player, but what you're doing in the world of link building? So, you know, if you're in a big established site, are you accruing links naturally in the casino world? Are there other sites out there linking to you? Are you having to actively go out there and really chase links and push in particular?

KRIS: Yeah, it really depends on the type of site. One of our sites is just a big tech site. And we've got tons of evergreen articles around tech in general. We do net worth articles for Elon Musk and other tech individuals. And those obviously bring in a lot of organic links that are just really good for the site. And that strengthens the casino pages as well. And they're in a closed environment. So the average journalist won't see those when they enter the page. So, for those sites, it's really easy to get great organic links, but you still need links to the evergreen casino pages and those we buy, like everyone else. There's no reason to spend your time on outreaching to get a casino link to a commercial casino page. Like, it doesn't matter. Buy the links. That's what we all do. And that's the easiest way to rank the pages.

MICHAEL: What's the longevity like in the space? When you do get up into a ranking, maybe not with a giant sort of tech site where you have that domain authority, but let's say it's a more casino focused niche site, but you do manage to get some good rankings. Is it just a constant battle to maintain it? Are the players coming in and trying to take those SERPs away from you? Google, of course, you know, they love their updates and everything at the moment. What's the market like?

KRIS: It's definitely a constant battle. Like you've got to continuously update your sites, like the pages itself. Google really values freshness in our niche because they need to show new casinos, show that we actually update the top list. Google is getting way better at looking at when things were refreshed and is relevant for the user. In terms of link building, we do link velocity analysis on all competitors, see how many links they build a month. If competitors are not building any, then we don't really build any to the same pages. If we see that it's a market like Swedish Unlicensed, where people build anything from 30 to 50 links a month, spends, I don't know, between 10 and 20K euros a month on links, then we have to do the same to maintain our top positions there. So it really depends on the market here again. But yeah, we do Fresnel updates and we do link building actively to most sites. It's not like a affiliate, Amazon affiliate where you can just rank a page and then you move on to the next page. It's definitely different here.

ARTHUR: It sounds like you don't have any issues finding links because typically I thought casino gambling was very notoriously hard to get links for.

KRIS: Yeah. Well, there are so many brokers out there today selling links and it's just about getting the right one. We have a deal with a Danish company called Kaboost where we buy all our things through. So once you get a certain, once you're on a certain size and we spend around 300, 400K a month on links only, and that's like maintaining that and doing the outreach yourself, doing the content yourself for the guest posts, that's just taking up too much time. It would be a department of 50 people just to do that every month. So instead, we just have a broker bring in the links for us. So we're buying links through a really nice CMS system and we make sure the anchors are correct. We do the outline for the articles that we want to publish in the specific sites. We can see the prices and that's pretty much it. On top of that, we do some PR articles as well with different PR agencies to get the real good links from the biggest newspapers that don't offer to sell links, obviously.

MICHAEL: What do you look at when you're looking at a link? Are you sort of letting these guys, you know, you've got your CMS, but are they at that level of spend picking some of it or are you running sort of some analysis metrics?

KRIS: Yeah, we're picking everything. Yeah, we're picking everything ourself. So we usually go for relevance. That's the top one now. So if you can find a relevant site, that's the best possible criteria you can have. Then we go for the nofollow, dofollow percentage like ratio of the backlinks for the site. So if they've got a lot of nofollow links to the site then we usually don't go for it. So it's relevant, then it's relevance, referring domains, then it's probably like the dofollow, nofollow ratio. We look for the domain rating. We rather want relevant links than high domain rating, but we also look at the domain rating. That's pretty much it. And then the article we published needs to be correlating to the page we actually sent the link to. And even better, if we can make the guest post rank in Google, that's by far the best possible link we can get.

MICHAEL: Yeah. So traffic to the page, is that sort of a proxy for that sort of? Exactly.

KRIS: Yeah. And we don't know if it works, but that's what we do. We try to. So let's say we want to link build to a Bitcoin casino page when then we want to find a really, really niche specific keyword that can bring in just a little bit of traffic to the guest post every month. And then we publish that, maybe even empower it with some tier two links, some viral marketing, and then we have a really great link.

MICHAEL: In terms of relevancy being the biggest factor, is that largely around the theme, you know, the theme of the site, the theme of the post, are you looking at things like geos, you know, let's say in Denmark, are you trying to get Danish?

KRIS: Oh yeah, definitely. I think that, yeah, in my opinion, that's given, but yeah, we do only UK links to UK, Danish links to Danish sites, Swedish links to Swedish sites. And once we run out, maybe in Thailand, it's super difficult to find. find links. When we run out, we usually just buy English links to a Thai site that works out really well. But yeah, geolinks, super important to stick to the same geo, even the same TLD. Some languages are more difficult. Like in Finland, it's actually illegal to link to gambling sites. So sometimes here you have to go in and do link insertion in old articles. So there's a lot of buts here in the industry, but in general, geo is super relevant as well.

MICHAEL: Yeah. It's tough in the Australian space where we operate, because there's only a small handful of .com.au. So we sort of cast the net a bit wider to .com. .com, .co.uk, like sort of, I guess, Western English-speaking markets is sort of available.

KRIS: For English-speaking markets, it's OK to just run .com links to everything. That doesn't matter. And usually, so Google used to be really geospecific for the rankings. So if you had a Bitcoin casino page, you needed to make a Bitcoin casino Australia, Canada, UK, New Zealand to rank everywhere. Google lately been much better at just ranking one page in every English geo. So we actually switched it around very recently and just gathered them all in one mega page. And then we're just purchasing from Australia, New Zealand, everything to the same page. That really works out. Cool.

MICHAEL: Cool. Very cool. What about other countries and languages? Are you sort of translating your sites into other languages and doing a bit of, I guess, a play in that sense?

KRIS: Yeah so one of the things we noticed were that a penalty on the main page would not like flow into the different geos we had on the same site. So what we usually do for all our .com sites are that we just add every single language we know are lucrative and then we have sometimes 43 different languages on a site. Why not leverage on the domain rating, all the links we build to the .com and just boost the revenue that way. So my recommendation to everyone is if you have a .com site, just start making it into like translating into other languages.

MICHAEL: Yeah. Subfolders or subdomains? I thought you might say that. So what about content in this space? Is it a case that, you know, it's super commercial, page focused, you're just sort of getting up, you know, top 10 fish slots, for example, and you're very much trying to drive that sign up? Or are you going into the whole world of, you know, topical maps and trying to have articles on everything to do with casinos and gambling that sort of feed into that?

KRIS: Topical coverage is more important than ever. So you're not going to rank with a hundred pages, commercial pages, and that's it. You're going to build, you're going to have to build your topic clusters. You're going to have to do all the beginner's guides, the roulette guides, the martingale strategy around blackjack and roulette to empower the online casino pages. But it's also very important that the commercial pages are commercial. There is nothing nowadays called an online casino guide, and that's what you're ranking for. Google knows that you need to rank for best online casinos, which means you are reviewing casinos and bringing the best casinos to the user. So the biggest mistake in the industry is writing in the middle title, best online casino 23 guide. That's probably the worst you can do nowadays because Google's getting smarter and smarter at reading content, knowing the search intent behind the actual query. So you've got to be very, very specific here. So there's a lot of search intent analysis nowadays in the space.

MICHAEL: Yep. And when it comes to creating the content, are you using largely the human writing process? Are you augmenting with AI at all? What's your approach to create that, I guess, topical map on your side?

KRIS: I think 99% of our content is handwritten by human. in-house content writers. We recently started experimenting by, so, you know, there's been two, three even, and one of them were spam update, Google core algorithm updates in the last just few weeks even. Yeah. Google's just getting better and better at reading content, which is really unfortunate for a company like us that has just been spamming on all our sites. So we noticed that our pages that rank really well, like on page one for even best online casinos, It just got removed from the index. And the pages themselves are still in the index, but the content, if you search for the specific content, it's not in Google. So it reads the page, just doesn't want to index the content because it's not good enough. So what we recently did was we took the content, just asked ChatGPT to shorten it and concise it, remove the fluff content basically. And after we did that and cut the pages from 10,000 words down to three, instantly ranked back again on page one. So last recent updates, definitely content related, definitely helpful content related. And Google wants to shorten pages. That's the way, that's the direction they're taking.

MICHAEL: Oh, and I like that. You know, I don't know if you landed on, you know, recipe pages where they waffle on. That's terrible. Yeah.

KRIS: So, yeah, but it's definitely, it's, um, it's definitely also easier for us because we have these major domain rating 89, 90 sites. So if Google wants to rely on less content, maybe even more links, it's perfect for us because we, we have the authority size to accommodate that.

MICHAEL: Yeah. So with these updates that have happened over the last, let's say, they've gone on a bit of a spree over the second half of this year. We have seen, when we search, you know, Reddit threads suddenly ranking for best online casinos. What do you think, because I guess that's playing out a bit, not just in this niche, but in multiple niches, wherever there's sort of reviews, typically domains of an affiliate site, product review affiliate site, Google's starting to favor Reddit or Quora, those types of sites, because conceivably they're human sort of discussions. They're not just motivated by affiliate marketing. Are you seeing that in the space? Is it impacting on you? And where do you think it's sort of headed?

KRIS: I read about that on Twitter as well, SEO Twitter, that Reddit started popping up in a lot of niches now. We saw it probably the first day in casino and then we're gone again. They're not topical, authoritative enough to rank there. They're not relevant enough. Even Reddit is not relevant enough in casino space. So that shows the competition there. But yeah, it ranked the first day and now it's gone. Sometimes we see it, there's the people also ask feature in Google. It looks like there's a forums and discussions part now. We saw it the first day, once in a while it pops up, but it's not something we're afraid of. However, we are looking into publishing and making our own subreddit forums and boards, publishing casino content there, strengthening those slowly without getting banned, doing the same for LinkedIn polls, just to see where it lands. The reason they sold Google Sheets ranking as well in the SERPs after the latest update.

MICHAEL: Yeah, that's crazy. So it's, I guess a big term is parasite SEO, you know, leveraging other properties, high DRs or whatever the case may be. What else are you doing in that sense, you know?

KRIS: Yeah, so I guess everyone out there knows Outlook India, which is the largest parasite right now. And it's a terrible site, but it's ranking for everything, basically everything. So my first recommendation for new affiliates would probably be start parasiting. A guest post or what we call a native article, a parasite article on Outlook India is $400. It's quite cheap considering you could land a really good keyword. So go to Africa again, find some specific keyword that you'd like to try to rank for, publish an article on Outlook India, and then you might actually StrikeGo there. We publish around 300 parasite articles a month, different sites, Times Union, Miami Herald, Outlook India, you name it. It's really good for us, but it is difficult for a new affiliate to go into parasiting because you need the investment in order to actually make the money there, since the payment is upfront and you're not guaranteed to rank. So you might actually spend a few thousand dollars before you first start ranking on your first article. So that's a numbers game. The more you publish, the luckier you are. Yeah.

MICHAEL: Yeah. And is that more a cherry on top? Like, are you concerned with Parasite SEO about Google just suddenly deciding that's it, Outlook India is gone and all of these sites where you're on? Or is it viable for someone to really go all in on Parasite SEO?

KRIS: Yeah. Like two years ago, I said Outlook India started ranking in March 2020, I think. And back then I said, this is going to last a year max, then Google is going to stop it. And here we are, end of 23. Outlook India is the largest casino site out there, ranking for basically everything worldwide. So as long as Google is not doing anything, then we need to be in that space in order to maintain our rankings and the position we have in the market. However, we are still building like exact match domains or big authoritative domains or casino sites or betting sites. We're building those like side by side with the parasites just to be ready if Google changes something because we don't want to lose everything on one day to another.

MICHAEL: Yeah. And I guess that's the beauty of being in like a big, let's say corporate player in this space, as opposed to just being someone buying guest posts on a parasite site. You've got that scale that others don't have. So I guess what sort of stuff are you able to do at the moment that allows you to leverage on that scale and resource that you have?

KRIS: Well, obviously there is a parasite part of it. We have the money to invest in parasites. Then we buy up sites. We buy new sites. That's really lucrative for us, buying up large new sites all the way up to a few million dollars per acquisition, transform those into casino sites and crypto sites. We're really successful at that. And that's obviously something that we're not the only one that does this. Every single gambling firm out there does this, but we're just quicker at doing the transaction, actually bringing money on the table. Usually they also overpay a lot because the revenue in new sites are usually very low since they're not doing gambling and crypts already. But that's something we can do that the normal affiliate can't. We've got much better deals than the average new affiliate. So we'll make the money back much quicker than usually. We have a few of our own casinos. So when we send players to the casinos, we keep a hundred percent of the revenue in-house, where usually the affiliates only get half of it.

MICHAEL: Yep, awesome. With the topic of payouts, you know, being able to use your, I guess, size to buy or sort of get yourself higher payouts, as a new affiliate in the space, when should they be reaching out to their affiliate manager and trying to get more of a payout out of them? Is it sort of, you know, 10 customers a month, 100? What's the sort of scale that you're looking at to start getting into the better CPAs?

KRIS: I think once you hit like 20, 20 FTDs a month is enough to start negotiating a deal. Once you hit 50, that's quite a lot of money if it's a good keyword, then you've really got a site. So it's not that much it requires to actually get the FTDs or that much traffic at least to get the FTDs. You've just got to hit one keyword. And I mean, some of the largest keywords out there It's probably in Sweden, unlicensed Swedish. One keyword can make six or seven hundred thousand a month. Just ranking number one for that specific keyword bringing in two or three thousand FCDs a month. Wow.

MICHAEL: So I guess if you're just there for a couple of months, then it's well worth it. It doesn't matter to an extent. Maybe at your scale, because you've got big teams and everything, you've got to try and protect. But if you can find your way into an untapped market or keyword that hasn't been swooped on yet by the other big players, it can really set you up.

KRIS: Yeah, definitely. Or even look out for new technologies in the casino business. Like one of them, there's two new crypto casinos right now that just launched Telegram casino, which means you can bet directly in Telegram, which is great for people in countries where casino is usually blocked. You can just play directly in Telegram. It's just more convenient and you can connect your phone payment and crypto directly to Telegram and just deposit there. So look for these new technologies that pop up and start ranking for those keywords before anyone else. There's also money in that.

MICHAEL: What about trying to think of ways of doing it that don't exist yet? So let's say WhatsApp Casino or something and creating content around where it doesn't exist. Yeah, that's a good one.

KRIS: That's a good one. We met a guy here the other night. I don't want to out him here, but he did apps, comparison apps, ranked those in App Store and got the money in that way, which we're not doing at all in our company. So that's an entirely untapped market for us. So it's definitely new things you do all the time. Cool. We also, we also do sub affiliation in our company. So if you are a small new affiliate, you might not be able to get the good deals with the partners. You can go through us and use our deals and we'll kind of pass on the, the traffic on, on behalf of you. So if we get a 300 CPA, which is really, really high because we're the largest partners, we'll give you a hundred and, and then you'll get a 20 ratio and percent ratio and we'll take 30 for example. Okay. which is still way better than you would get yourself. There are also a lot of casinos that don't want to work with new affiliates due to legal issues. It's more legal things they have to take care of. If they use the right logo, do they have the right disclaimers, terms and conditions on their site? So going through us means the casino don't know that they're coming from sub-affiliates. It just looks like it's our site. So everything legal-wise is in order.

MICHAEL: And how are you finding and recruiting, you know, up and coming casino affiliate to do that? And then also with the sub-affiliate, is that something that the affiliate program offers you, or is it something that you sort of set up your own tracking?

KRIS: We set it up ourselves. We have our own affiliate program as well. So basically just search for a casino affiliate program and you'll find us. And then you just sign up, get your own login, just like my affiliates or Amazon affiliate or whatever you, you know it from there. It's the same.

MICHAEL: Okay. Well, this has been awesome, you know, digging into this. Is there anything we haven't asked you, you know, that you might be covering off in your presentation this week that you think would be beneficial to the audience?

KRIS: I'm talking about repurposing domains. I'm talking about viral marketing. We can touch upon viral marketing. I think that's very interesting. So we've seen that manipulating a viral hit makes you pretty much rank overnight for many keywords. So you basically show Google that your site is what everyone's looking for overnight. Something went viral and Google wants to show that site to people in the SERPs. This works on like lower search volume keywords, anything from 500 to a few thousand searches a month. We do it 24 seven. So it's basically sending a few thousand Twitter, Gmail visitors through a specific URL and that ranks a site overnight.

MICHAEL: How are you doing that? Is it all bot sort of traffic or?

KRIS: It's completely legit traffic, real people. We do it through Gmail and Twitter. How exactly we do it, people need to contact me and I can dig a bit more into it, but it's a very specific, special tactic that we don't want to get out there. But basically it is just sending real people, geospecific from Twitter and Gmail to a specific URL.

MICHAEL: Yeah. We, like a long time ago, back probably when I was working at the agency before the one I'm at now, used Mechanical Turk. I don't know if you're familiar with that, but you can go on there and sort of… Amazon Mechanical Turk.

KRIS: Yeah. And micro workers. Yes. Yeah. That used to work. It doesn't anymore. No. The issue with those is that it's mostly Indian and Chinese people there, which is not really working for a Norwegian side, for example. Yeah. So, no, we do it manually. Yeah. Yeah.

MICHAEL: Beautiful. Well, this has been great. We like to ask everyone that comes on the show the same question, just to see how they think about things and get different perspectives. And it's pretty simple. In the SEO world, we all use tools. So tools could be software, browser plugins, WordPress plugins, whatever platform you're on. But if you only had to use three in this very competitive world of casino affiliate marketing, what would you use to get the job done?

KRIS: Yeah, wow. I guess Search Console doesn't count since it's free. But… Yeah, no, it can be free. That's cool. Yeah. Well, Search Console, obviously. There's everything in there that you need for your site. Search Console is good. Then I would probably have said Ahrefs back in the days, but… Given the new payment method, I'm not really going to recommend that anymore. So I'd say Screaming Frog, definitely. And then a browser plugin like Detailed or something simple that you use every day just makes stuff easier. That's probably the three.

MICHAEL: Yeah. Great. Awesome. Well, if people want to go check you out after the show, learn a little bit more, where can they head?

KRIS: Well, just Google my name, Kristopher Holden, and you'll find my website. Just contact me on WhatsApp, LinkedIn. I'm not that active on Twitter, mostly just lurking in there, reading about SEO, seeing what people write, even though it's mostly not relevant for the casino business since it's very different. But that's where people can find me.

MICHAEL: Awesome. Well, thanks for coming on the show and sharing all your knowledge with us. And yeah, it was great. You're welcome. Thank you.

KRIS: Thanks for having me.

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