SEO Is Not For Everyone

MICHAEL:
Hi guys, Michael here. Do you want a second opinion on your SEO? Head to theseoshow.co and hit the link in the header. We'll take a look under the hood at your SEO, your competitors and your market and tell you how you can improve. All right, let's get into the show.

INTRO: It's time for The SEO Show, where a couple of nerds talk search engine optimization so you can learn to compete in Google and grow your business online. Now here's your hosts, Michael and Arthur.

MICHAEL: Hello out there. I am Michael Costin. I am back and I'm joined by Arthur Fabik. He's back. Good to be back. It's been six weeks. Where are you back from?

ARTHUR: Let the listeners know.

MICHAEL: I was on a little, I was on a little, taking a little break. I went on holidays and we- A little break? Well, a while, a little bit of a- A very, very long break. A mid-life break. Took a couple of months off with the family. And we scheduled a whole bunch of episodes ahead, but didn't really account for the last few weeks of it. So there's been about six weeks that we've been missing in action. Can you believe that?

ARTHUR: I can, because we haven't recorded in a very long time.

MICHAEL: We actually haven't recorded episodes in months, but we're back. And today we're going to talk about not doing SEO. That's a nice return to contradiction. Here's why you shouldn't be doing SEO. That's what we're talking about today. We do have some good guests lined up, you know while I've been away I've been reaching out to people and I've got some people coming on to chat all things local SEO what's working right now and another guy to talk about Reddit and how it's blown up in the SERPs and how a lot of people are doing parasite SEO on Reddit now and how that's all working So some cool stuff to come but today we're going to talk about not doing SEO Because SEO is not for everyone. Is it Arthur?

ARTHUR: No. Well, it can be, but it really has to be the right business and the right time, I reckon. And a lot of businesses will start investing in SEO, expecting results instantly, um, only to find out that it doesn't work like that and it can burn them basically.

MICHAEL: Yeah. Cause despite what some SEO sales people might say, not every business needs SEO at all times. And it, People might come in with a new business and be like, I need to 10x, you know, I'm going to invest in SEO. And then an SEO salesperson sells them that because that's what they've said they want. And a few months into it, they haven't 10x and they haven't done anything. And then there's all sorts of pain and pressure on both sides for results. And it's just not a nice scenario.

ARTHUR: So, yeah, I guess from our experience as well, being on the receiving end of a client that has sky high expectations, And you're trying to do your best, trying to get them results and explain to them that it is going to take time. It's not a good kind of working relationship because it can become not hostile, but just unpleasant if someone expects the load and doesn't get it straight away.

MICHAEL: Exactly. So we're going to talk about when SEO is not right for you. A warts and all look at it. We're going to be honest. Yes, we work in SEO. We work in an agency. We sell SEO to people. But we don't always sell it to people and we're not afraid to tell people this isn't the right channel for you. Maybe you should go here or maybe you should not be doing anything. So we'll start off by talking about when SEO might not be the best strategy. And I'm going to say first and foremost, if your industry is not suited to it, then you might never do SEO. So an example I always like to use is a nail salon or like eyelash extensions, that sort of stuff, single operator. Usually like maybe a person that works from home, micro business with one employee, no employees, that sort of stuff, selling niche products. There's not going to be a lot of search out there.

ARTHUR: I might put a little asterisk on that and say, definitely try to do local SEO if you can, but not full scope, full blown SEO.

MICHAEL: Yeah. Don't go hiring an agency paying thousands of dollars a month. I definitely have a Google my business, definitely optimize it where it needs to be optimized, definitely push for Google reviews, that sort of stuff. Um, but there's not going to be a lot of volume people going in and typing in, you know, um, nail French nails near me, you know, there might be a little bit, but not enough to justify. Have you been going through my search history again? As I said that, I'm like, is French nails right? I don't even think it is right. Whatever. French nails. Some sort of nail. French tips. Yeah. Yeah. That was it. The other thing might be a real trend-driven thing, like something that comes to my mind as I say that. Remember those snorkels? Snorkels that people would drink, you know, the beer snorkels? Yeah. That sort of stuff, like it might light up on social media and they're like, well, let's invest in SEO. It might be, that's a boom and bust type thing where it disappears, the interest in it, you know, it might spike on social and then die. That's an example. What's another example of a trend-based thing? I know, masks during COVID. Well, yeah, massively. That sort of stuff, like, or hand sanitizer during COVID, sanitizer stations, that sort of stuff. There's going to be a big demand for it for a moment in time, but plowing all of that into SEO for long term, if the business is not necessarily going to be even around that long, probably not a good thing. Exactly.

ARTHUR: Yeah. I guess another thing is depending on where you are in your business, like if you're just starting out and you need Revenue or leads or whatever quickly SEO is definitely not the channel for you. Yeah, you're Well true yes in which case you've been doing SEO and another channel like Google Ads for example that can get you instant leads Yep, if you're just a dude that was a plumber working for a company and you've gone out on your own You are going to need customers.

MICHAEL: So Google Ads will drive that for you SEO and the plumbing space is going to take a Bit of grunt and time and elbow grease, all that sort of stuff. And money. Money, exactly. Well, that's a good thing. Budget considerations, right? Like if you have a small budget, you don't have the resources, you're going to be able to drive more immediate ROI from paid ads or social media ads or influencer marketing or whatever the case may be, then you will from SEO.

ARTHUR: And we've always talked about like cheap operators that are offering booster packages for $3.99 a month that are just going to extort you and take your money. So as tempting as that may sound, definitely avoid any sort of budget priced SEO like that because it's just going to be an automated report and them just building up their bank account a lot of the time.

MICHAEL: A lot of the time. Pretty much all of the time. If you're like a new business, you're not going to achieve amazing growth for $3.99 a month. That $3.99 is better off spent on Google ad media budget. Exactly. Exactly. The other thing would be, I guess we've sort of touched on about like the time, like if you need immediate quicker returns, high volume, sort of high turnover of customers, SEO, something you might add in the mix in the future, but like if, if you're time constrained, SEO is definitely not the channel for you. So if you're time constrained for whatever reason, SEO is not the channel for you.

ARTHUR: So what is the channel then? I guess, like if you're not, not suggesting SEO, what channels could a business be doing when they're starting out or if it's not suited to them?

MICHAEL: It's going to depend on the type of business you are. Um, if you're like a lifestyle brand or like the French tip type person or like an e-commerce business, that sort of stuff thrives on Instagram, Facebook, you know, meta ads, maybe some TikTok ads. If you're a local service business like roof restoration or marble polishing, that sort of stuff, then Google ads works really well for it. Sometimes you can run social media offers for that sort of stuff. Like let's say air conditioning filter changes. That might be something you could pump on social as well. Those two channels are going to be most of the time where you're going to get immediate results as a, as a business and new business, maybe influencer marketing. So like if, If you're one of those trend driven products, hiring some influencers to post about it and, you know, do some stories, posts, that sort of stuff might work to get you some exposure. Um, it's much quicker. Um, I would say how that works.

ARTHUR: Like, I wonder if it works well. I mean, obviously it depends on the product and the influencer and their audience and I guess the offer. But yeah, I always wondered how much return does a business actually get partnering with people?

MICHAEL: Cause I haven't done it. The way you know is by doing like a discount code. A code, yeah. And then you know for sure whether it's driving. Because a lot of these, it's got to be the right, their audience has to match your product. You know, there's got to be that fit there and their audience has to be real and engaged and not just a hodgepodge of people. And so, yeah, bots or whatever. So look, certain things, it's got to be like the right sort of product for that. I would, put influencer marketing probably bottom of the list really here of things we're talking about for most businesses. You don't see a plumber reaching out to some Instagram influencer to do a post about their hot water installation specials, but they definitely will run some Google ads and get leads quickly. Relying on word of mouth is always one that people like to do, but for me, this is just, that's just hoping and praying, you know, like yes, word of mouth is good and you should be trying to get it through delivering a good service to your customers and following up and asking for it, but it's not something you can build a business on really. You need to do some form of advertising to cold prospects.

ARTHUR: Yeah.

MICHAEL: No, I definitely agree. Partnerships would be the other one as well. Like if you're a landscaper, you might partner with builders and Do a little bit of a kickback or something to them or whatever, set your partnership up some way to get work. But again, that's lumpy. It comes and goes, ebbs and flows sort of thing. Whereas your Google ads, your social ads, you can turn them on and expect to get results if you've got a good campaign and a good offer and a good website.

ARTHUR: What about like the old school, uh, yellow pages? Do you think people still go in there and search? I mean, I personally haven't, but I know my mom would still, I think she even, showed me something on the other pages like last month. She was, I can't remember. An actual physical heavy, heavy book. No, no, no. On the, on the website. So she actually bypassed Google and went to yellow pages. I think just because like by habit, you know. Growing up, they would always use the other pages. So, I mean, people still post on there and put placements of their business on this. So I don't know, but then I guess there's alternatives like high pages if you're like a trade business or yep.

MICHAEL: They're probably good if you're starting out and you can just do any job and you can be, basically it's a race to the bottom and price normally on those things. Like, You're up against two or three or four or five other businesses. And most people just want the cheapest, not all, but most. And, um, if you're just starting out on that and you have no presence, so to speak, you probably need to do cheap work to build up your, I guess, profile case studies, reviews, profile. Um, so I would say it serves a point for a moment in time, but it's, if I was running a trade business, I wouldn't want to be, hustling for price driven people and like a comparison type site like that. We know from our world, you know, in the, those types of businesses have tried to start in the agency space many times over the years and the prospects on there have never been good. And then the businesses selling those leads invariably disappear because they don't get the repeat purchases because again, it's just people shopping for price. So, Yeah. Funnily enough, we're going to say Google paid ads and social ads, probably the best channels for someone starting out if SEO is not yet right for them. Anything else there or have we pretty much covered it?

ARTHUR: I mean everything other than like the old school magnets in the letterbox. Um, yeah, I mean that stuff still works I guess if you're a plumber in a local area and someone has an emergency and they don't have time and you've got a magnet on the fridge. Yep.

MICHAEL: I tell you what, I, I, I got my roof painted and around the area, there are those core flute signs that are nailed into telegraph poles, like, you know, roof restoration, $2,000 call this number. And I just reached out to a couple of them, um, as part of the process, I didn't end up going with them because their followup was non-existent. I ended up working with someone that I found on Google, but, um, at least inquired, you know, there was a lead there. This business just had a terrible, approach to handling the leads, aka not even replying, but maybe that for the right sort of business. Yeah.

ARTHUR: I mean, that's basically almost, almost free advertising, isn't it?

MICHAEL: Yeah. Well, the cost of the core flute wouldn't be much. And then what's the rules are about hammering core flutes that, um, sort of plasticky paper, like, um, like what, um, what they do in like open herons? Yeah, kind of. Yeah. Might be hammered into a stake in the ground. Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. So I just see people, they must climb, put a ladder up on a telegraph pole and hammer it in there. And it stays up for as long as it stays up. Um, don't know how legal it is, but I'm sure it's not that big a deal. Cause I see it everywhere. Um, let's talk about when SEO is crucial because we're saying it's not for everyone. And we've given a few examples of businesses that wouldn't do it. There are times where you have to be an SEO really. Um, This would be for me, if you're an established business, the more established you are, the more you need to diversify your lead sources. So yes, it might be fine to start out hammering corflute signs into polls or handing out brochures by hand somewhere, but that stuff doesn't scale. It's not something that you can build a sales team on the back of. So you're going to need to diversify your lead sources. And if you are an established business, you have a bit of money behind you, you need to be looking at all sorts of different channels, not just one or two. So in that case, you might be running Google ads. And if your ads are running well, you have tons of competitors and the ads are quite expensive. That pretty much proves Google as a channel works. So why not go chase that traffic for potentially cheaper via SEO? I agree. No, I agree.

ARTHUR: Yeah. The other thing is as well, if you've got high value search terms. So if your keywords say on Google ads are expensive, CPCs are super expensive. And like you said, you've kind of exhausted Google ads, you're getting all the leads. Just makes sense to do SEO and start targeting, targeting those very expensive high volume keywords. Um, yeah, it's going to cost obviously, but the reward is there once you start ranking.

MICHAEL: And so when we're saying high value, normally that's going to be businesses like professional services, say lawyers, accountants, um, anyone in that world. Mortgage brokers, software as a service businesses that need leads for a sales team. Tradies, like we spoke about a tradie starting out should be focusing on Google ads, but once you're established and you have maybe a couple of utes on the road or whatever it is, then you definitely need to be going after SEO because Google ads are super expensive.

ARTHUR: Yeah. We know how expensive CPCs for like plumbers and electricians are.

MICHAEL: Astronomical. You need to be there, but you also need SEO. And then I guess if you are like a, if you have a long-term growth plan over many quarters, many years, and you understand that you need to be investing in different channels and you're in a competitive space or maybe like a like a knowledge driven space, like accountants or even agencies like us, where, you know, you've got to try and build leads over the longterm, then SEO is going to work for you because it's like a line item that you can take, you can invest in every month and you know, down the path, it's going to start contributing to your, your longterm growth. So if you're lacking that time pressure, so to speak. So most businesses ultimately will benefit from SEO. Like I was very proud of this line when I said it to you before, but SEO, not investing in SEO, in my opinion, is a moment in time. It's not, it shouldn't be like a mindset forever. Like if you're just starting out, yes. If your budget is constrained, yes. If, you know, you're not yet established, yes. But as you grow, as you get a bit more revenue, as you're more established, SEO usually is going to be a channel you should look at investing in. Unless you're super niche.

ARTHUR: Yeah, I reckon also a lot of people will invest in it for a short period of time and then reach where they want to reach and then decide that they want to stop doing SEO. And I guess that's one thing we kind of do tell clients is, you know, once you're there, you're there. I mean, you own that space, um, and you can scale back, but scaling back means that you will potentially get overtaken again. Invariably. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's one of the, it is, it is a longterm always on kind of strategy. Like you shouldn't be just, you know, getting to position one and then stopping SEO completely. And I think a lot of people have that mindset.

MICHAEL: Yeah. So, usually if you want to see if you can do that or not, just go look at the other sites in the search results around your business. What are they doing with their links? Are their links growing each month? Go look at their keyword rankings. I'm talking in Ahrefs here. Go look at their top pages. You'll get a feel for if they're investing in their SEO. And sure, you might be able to save a bit of money by pausing for a while. Really, marketing is something you should be investing in, not saving money on.

ARTHUR: A rule of thumb is if it's a competitive niche, they're always doing SEO. Your competitors are always doing SEO.

MICHAEL: You might not need to invest as much as you do at the start of a campaign once it's mature, sure, but we've seen plenty stop altogether and then A few months later, they've gone backwards. So yeah.

ARTHUR: And it's always an uphill battle trying to get back to where there's that momentum.

MICHAEL: Yeah. So, um, look, SEO is not for everyone and we would never sell it to you if you were one of those businesses we spoke about at the start. And you shouldn't be buying it if you're one of those businesses, maybe do it yourself for sure. Do the basics, do what you've learned about in this show. But, um, yeah, it's not for everyone at all times, but. It's usually a moment in time that it's not for you. And once you hit the right point in your business, get stuck into SEO because it's a great channel. The ROI long-term is usually the best from it. And there's plenty of fun watching Google respond to your efforts. So that about wraps this first episode back. There's a lot more to come. We're going to be out in the market every week with another episode, aren't we Arthur? We commit to it. We commit every week. Every week, no more six weeks old. Every week or two weeks or so.

ARTHUR: We'll see how we go. We'll see how the momentum goes.

MICHAEL: There's going to be a bit more on our YouTube channel. It's been gathering dust, but there's a little pipeline of stuff coming that I can just, I can tease at the end of the episode here. You look, I'm not going to lie, you look refreshed.

ARTHUR: You look ready.

MICHAEL: You look ready to go. I am ready. I've been planning. This is where the rubber meets the road now. So we'll be back next week. Arthur's committed to it with another episode of the SEO show. But until then, happy SEOing. Yeah.

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